Is the Bible all we need when we share our faith with the intellectual Atheist and intellectual Agnostics or do we need to first go outside the Bible to prove the Bible? Can we use the Bible to prove that the Bible is The Word of God?
The following is an exchange that I had with a believer about the above question.
As I've listen, or read, the rhetoric and blind backwash I am move to spew a few thoughts of my own.
The origin of thought/life is a knowledge lost in the turmoil of skewed facts and gross misinterpretation. Every culture has its version and thus we are left with no definitive answer. One persons "Thus sayeth the Lord" is another's "Hum Du'Allah", being so, no one produces anything concrete.
For the Christians, you can not use the Bible to prove the Bible. Especially when approaching someone who has no belief in the Bible in the first place. As Jesus teaches in Matt. 10:16 "See, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. So be as cunning as serpents and as innocent as doves." Jesus knew that the apostle, most of whom had non-scholastic jobs and upbringings, were going into a world where philosophy and intellectualism was the norm. They were in Greece at a time when the Greeks were the "purveyors of truth and wisdom" God has proven himself to men before scriptures. Abraham had no new testament or prophet books or Talmud or Pentateuch/Torah (as these were written after the flood and thus after Abraham) yet he knew God enough to be willing to sacrifice a son God himself promised. The existence of God, who He is and what he's done is proven through creation, without the Bible. These are the tools used to speak with the non-believers.
For the Non-Christians, you must understand that all thought/belief/religion and practices thereof are conveyed though some man, somewhere at sometime. Nothing is original and no argument new. So when attacking the scriptures, be sure that your own rationale falls within the realm of your own logic less you succumb to the very argument you're trying to make and thus you yourself prove that you don't know.
I look forward to this discourse as these are the stones to which our Faith (Christian) are founded as Paul said in Acts 17:10-12 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. Many of the Jews believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men." (No blind Faith)
My Reponse Below
Well put C,
I guess it depends on how you view the Bible. I view the Bible as the Word of God, living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. A famous preacher once said that the way you defend the Bible is the way you defend a lion, you just let it out of the cage. Power to change the heart does not rest with me or how well I can articulate my position, the power to change the heart rest with the word of God and the God of the word.
Paul dealt with heavy weight Greek philosophers in Corinth and Paul’s approach was this: When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified 1 Corinthians 2:1-2. Further he says in verse 4 "My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power" the reason Paul used this approach is stated in verse 5 "so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power".
Furthermore I can confirm the transforming power of the Bible, being that I was once assassinating its authenticity and authority. My life has now been transformed because of the Bible.
The Bible was written during a period spanning over 1500 years by over 40 different writers and yet has one underlining theme “Jesus is Lord”. No other historical literature has withstood the scrutiny that the bible has. No other ancient historical writings have more verified manuscripts as the Bible. Yet, that is not what’s going to defend the Bible, the Bible will defend the Bible.
9 comments:
I am always so proud of you for what you do for the body of believers that God has entrusted to you and abroad. I pray God's will in your life and ministry.
Brick by brick, God builds a mighty fortress around our lives as we learn to bring to the light(through open dialogue with God) that which we by human nature leave in the dark.
(just a thought from Beth Moore that I hold dear).
I love you,
your wife
Thank you my hunny bunny!!!
I concur with your statement Pastor Fitts. I struggle with the idea of posting a comment or expressing an opinion after reading one that is clear and concise on the subject. I fear my thoughts or opinion[s] will be little more than redundant. None the less. I will say this. The bible IS enough. It is the Living word of GOD. It needs no defense. It teaches, encourages, convicts and comforts the believer. It reveals the awesome power and sovereignty of GOD. It can and does defend itself in the face of those who choose to question its authenticity and or validity. It has withstood the test and scrutiny of the Learned, the Philosophical and even those of the scientific community time and time again. [See the writing of C.S. Lewis.] But as you stated its creator is God. Therefore its power is of God and it changes the hearts of those who genuinely seek GOD. I am no where near as well versed in Scripture as perhaps I could or should be. But beyond perhaps a personal testimony, The Bible and its teachings are all I need in my attempts to share the love and Goodness of GOD. His power is revealed in our weakness. No manor of clever phrase’s or charismatic speaking can change the heart[s] of men. You may hold their attention or even inspire them to some degree. The Power to Save and Deliver rest solely with our Lord and can be accomplished through the reading and the teaching of his word…
Is the Bible enough?
For Christians, absolutely. For those seeking to know more about Jesus and who he is, of course. It is the most authoritative document found anywhere on the life of Jesus. But is it all that's needed when witnessing, debating or retorting claims against it or it's teachings or its very authority and authenticity. No. Absolutely not. But understand the context to which I say this. I in no means am inferring that the bible is not the word of God, or is lacking in power nor do I mean to undermine it's purpose. My statement is a practical one from my personal experience in defending our faith. Which is why I said, "You can not use the bible to prove the bible."
Why do I say that? What more proof is needed? For those who have dismissed the scriptures, a lot. Everyone has there own experience that leads them to Christ. Lee Strobel has a great book called "The Case for Christ". For him, he wanted to disprove the bible which in turn brought him to saving faith. It was those external things that made the bible more than a story. The fact that no other religious book made and fulfilled claims the way that the bible does set it apart for him. Which, in his mind proved that the bible was true.
An example from my personal experience. I debate a lot with Muslims and there number one argument is that the bible is corrupted. Now I can't go to scripture to prove that the scriptures had not been corrupted. But I don't want to ignore their question or worse, not answer at all, especially since I know what scriptures they refer to that seemingly makes their claim. My response is there own scriptures. There are five main scriptures in the Quran that tell Muslims to go to the injeel/gospels and the taurat/torah if they have any questions concerning truth. In their own verses, they are lead to the bible as the ultimate authority. In this, I had accomplished two things 1) they cannot argue their point less they call their prophet a lie, 2) I set the bible as the authority in their minds because their prophet refers them to it. (Quran scriptures: surah 10 aya 94/ surah 21 aya 6/ surah 29 aya 46/ surah 4 aya 136 - The reference to the people of the book means people of the bible).
Again, this is just my opinion from my experience.
C
Well written post my brother! Keep it coming.
Thank you for the comment you left on my blog. Let me welcome you to the world of blogging. I am looking forward to reading your passions and convictions about Jesus Christ and His Church. God Be Praised!
Lance
Why is it enough for a Christian but not for EVERYONE if the Bible is (supposed to be) for everyone? In a nutshell, part of the problem demonstrated here is this: perspective.
People fail to believe the Bible and its truths because they view things from their own perspective, not God’s perspective. I guess this is not completely their fault since these fall into a group who do not know God; and, as a people who have chosen to not be a part of such an exclusive membership, could not possibly be knowledgeable on this subject. Yes, one could argue that this is where research and study comes in. However, how can you research something that is only given to you directly from God once you have received membership into the club? The fact of the matter is that some things are a mystery and are not in a book or “researchable” but they are revealed and given only by God, who then directs you to Bible truths to substantiate the things that man can not understand or absorb. Now one might then argue that this is not fair play and therefore should be rendered invalid. But to this I say that God has many characteristics, one of which is graciousness. He is gracious enough to allow us the privilege of having some things put into terms that we can understand on our level. (After all, His ways are not our ways, nor His thought our thoughts and we are limited while He is limitless; therefore our best, biggest and brightest thoughts, arguments, rebuttals or ideas are quite minuscule, inadequate and not even worth mention when compared to the vastness of One who is without limits.)
We certainly understand the frustration of a mystery: for example when you ask a friend or relative for the recipe of a divine dish that you simply cannot master and they tap their temple only to give you a look, a smile and say, “It’s all up here.” Yes, it frustrates you to know that the information is readily available but not quite, unless they make the decision to share it with you. And if you are lucky enough (well… I say blessed enough, since I don’t do “luck”) to be privilege to that knowledge, perhaps even taken under their wing so they can show you the exact technique toward mastery, you feel that special glow, knowing that you are part of an elect.
So there is no need for me to argue or debate with someone who simply does not know of what they speak. I do not argue with my 12 year old when she tries to convince me that $500 a month is A LOT of money and you could buy a house with that. Why? Because she simply does not know. For now she is limited. Thankfully this is a limit that will gradually fade as her learning curve increases. However, I know enough to know that the knowledge gap for some will never close because it is a gap that only a limitless God can fill. There are certain truths and mysteries that can only be given or revealed by God; reserved for an elect that have chosen to take membership amongst the blood washed. For those who choose otherwise, they will only be able to speak from their limitations. In this place they are happy to mill about clueless to the things of God. Why? Because they simply do not know. The sorrow for me is that they do not want to know because they are comfortable spewing what they think or know from a limited existence, without the direction of an omnipotent God.
Before I go here’s a little something on perspective. It’s funny, but true.
One day a 6 year old girl was sitting in a classroom. The teacher was going to explain evolution to the children. The teacher asked a little boy: “Tommy do you see the tree outside?”
TOMMY: Yes.
TEACHER: Tommy, do you see the grass outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
TEACHER: Go outside and look up and see if you can see the sky.
TOMMY: Okay. (He returned a few minutes later) Yes, I saw the sky.
TEACHER: Did you see God up there?
TOMMY: No.
TEACHER: That's my point. We can't see God because he isn't there. Possibly he just doesn't exist.
A little girl spoke up and wanted to ask the boy some questions.
The teacher agreed and the little girl asked the boy: “Tommy, do you see the tree outside? “
TOMMY: Yes.
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy do you see the grass outside?
TOMMY: Yessssss!
LITTLE GIRL: Did you see the sky?
TOMMY: Yessssss!
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the teacher?
TOMMY: Yes
LITTLE GIRL: Do you see her brain?
TOMMY: No
LITTLE GIRL: Then according to what we were taught today in school, she possibly may not even have one!
'FOR WE WALK BY FAITH, NOT BY SIGHT' II CORINTHIANS 5:7
Deantwan, thanks for coming over and visiting my blog. Hopefully, we can continue the friendship. I have placed your blog on my blogroll and I will be following it. If you don't mind returning the favor, that would be great.
I'm visiting you from the comment you left Edie at Rich Gifts. I've really enjoyed your thoughts and comments on your blog.
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